for another example. So is Fidelity
Investments, which is (if I am not mistaken) the second-largest
private employer in New Hampshire (after Wal-Mart.)
(along with some other comments)
additional commentary by Timothy Horrigan; July 29 & August 5, 2010
This is a letter to the editor, defending a rather unpopular tax, which appeared in the March 6, 2010 Dover, NH Foster's Daily Democrat. An LLC is, as you probably know, "a limited liability company." This is just like a corporation, except it's not a corporation: it has simpler but less flexible rules. In New Hampshire LLC's can't have transferable shares and they can only have a limited number of "members" (equivalent to shareholders, although corporations and even other LLC's can be members.) One of my constituents is very eager to remove the restriction on the number of members because he owns many LLCs, possibly dozens of them, but I digress...
Original URL (subject to link rot over time):
Support for LLC tax
To
the editor: I would like to put in a good word for the much maligned
"LLC Tax" which was passed last year by the General Court
during the budget process.
This tax was supposedly sneaked
into the "budget trailer bill" HB2 in the dead of night.
But that is a myth. I knew it was there; hopefully all the other
legislators who voted for the budget knew it was there. The process
may have been politically flawed, since there were no public
hearings, but the House and Senate both followed their rules, and the
governor signed HB2 into law.
The LLC Tax is as valid as any
other law, as is the rest of HB 2 (a flawed budget bill which was the
best bill the General Court could pass under the financial and
political constraints facing our state.)
The term "LLC
Tax" is itself a myth. HB2 simply closed a loophole in the
Interest & Dividends Tax whereby Limited Liability Companies were
excluded from a tax which corporations already paid. LLC's tend to be
smaller than corporations, but there are some very large entities
which are LLC's. Fidelity Investments, the financial giant which is a
major employer in New Hampshire, is organized as several interlocking
LLCs, for example. The LLC loophole in the Interest & Dividends
tax cost the state government about $15 million a year.
The
Interest & Dividends tax is 5 percent, which is not a trivial
percentage, but which is far less than the 13.5 percent figure cited
by LLC Tax opponents.
The 13.5 percent number was arrived at
by adding the Interest & Dividends tax to the 8.5 percent
Business Profits tax, which LLC's have been paying all along. The
so-called LLC Tax applies only to cash payments to LLC owners which
cannot be justified as compensation for services rendered. The LLC
Tax has been derided as a "job-destroying" tax but it
actually incentivizes job creation: it is not applied to revenues
paid out as wages and salaries, and it is not applied to revenues
reinvested in the LLC. The new tax specifically excludes revenues
which are used to directly create new jobs, as well as those which
are used to increase the compensation for existing jobs.
Rep.
Timothy Horrigan
Durham
The LLC is often regarded as a
synomym for "small business" although some LLCs are huge.
Wal-Mart
Transportation, Wal-Mart's inhouse trucking firm is an LLC, for
example, as is its e-commerce subsidiary Walmart.com.
So is Walmart.com's rival Amazon,
The tax was put into the 2009-2010 budget during the conference committee process. It is often described as having been done secretly in the dead of night, but it was put in during the afternoon and everyone knew about it. There was no hearing, but the issue had been the subject of hearings previously. The House and Senate Ways & Means and Finance committees were being a little cynical: they hear the same crap at every hearing about how unfair taxes are and how every proposed tax increase will destroy the economy. (In New Hampshire, we also have many small taxes. We have no broad based tax, but we have dozens, maybe hundreds, of narrow based taxes, mostly on business. No matter how narrow the base of the tax is, and no matter how seemingly trivial— or even downright useless— the industry being taxed is, there will be lobbyists ready to warn the committee that this industry is the lynchpin of the state's economy. I have even seen lobbyists come in and tell us that our economy would fall apart if we raised the cigarette tax to the same rates found in neighboring states; apparently the basis of our whole economy, especially in communities near a state line but also in the central part of the state, was sales of cigarettes at convenience stores to bargain-seeking out-of-state smokers. Apparently smokers will drive long distances in their quest to get lung cancer and emphysema as cheaply as possible.)
In any case, the LLC tax was basically a logical idea: it treated interest and dividends from LLCs the same as those from all other corporate entities. New Hampshire has excessively high business taxes, but this tax was only 5% and it would (supposedly) raise $15 million at a time when the state needed every million it could get to balance the budget. That's not a small percentage and it's not that small an amount of money, but it's not enough to destroy the small business sector. 5% isn't going to turn anyone's winning business plan into a loser. $15 million wasn't going to suck the small business sector dry (especially since state government is one of the small business sector's biggest customers, and since some of the millions would be used to lower other taxes.)
The LLC tax was tagged with the epithet "job-killing LLC tax." Ironically, money spent on payroll was exempt. Money reinvested in the business was exempt as well (unless you have multiple LLCs like my neighbor. He would have to pay the tax on funds transferred from one LLC to another.)
The LLC tax uproar coincided with a recession, and more specifically it corresponded with a dispute over "reasonable compensation": income over a certain amount can be considered interest & dividends if it cannot be justified as "reasonable" compensation. The opponents of the LLC tax radically misinterperted a proposal to raise a floor value to $50,000 as a proposal to set a ceiling value of $50,000.
The LLC tax eventually got killed in June 2010. It only raised an estimated $2 million before it died. Even though it is dead, and even though it only took a fraction of what it was expected to take, the Republicans are still angry about it.
On a related note, I have made more than one provocative comment on the Manchester Union Leader's web site, attached to stories about the LLC Tax. I often wonder if some of the respondents really own LLC's profitable enough to be effected by the tax. One of the popular tropes in the Union Leader comment sections involves a (supposedly) LLC owner who was about to hire a worker until the tax prevented them from doing so. This trope seems unlikely to me: it cost a minimum of $25,000 to hire even a worker. $25,000 divided by 5% is $500,000. Most LLC's don't make anywhere near that much profit. If they do hire a worker, the cost of hiring a worker is a business expense and should be exempt from the LLC Tax. And of course, no business owner hires workers unless the value of the worker's services exceeds the cost. The 5% bite out of the LLC's interest and dividends is not insignificant, but (as I said before) that doesn't turn a winning business plan into a loser.
Here are a couple of my comments, with responses from other readers (some of whom seem to be confabulators):
|
"Businesspeople by the busload blast LLC tax"; January 8, 2010 (one of the businesspeople was Senatorial candidate Kelly Ayotte's husband, who owns a landscaping business in Nashua.) |
|
Joseph Daley, a small business owner from Nashua, griped about
traveling 90 minutes each way to speak for 3 minutes. I can't
blame him for being irked. He can submit written testimony as
well, although it is unclear who if anyone will read it. |
|
My comment triggered this angry retort:
@- Timothy Horrigan, Durham, NH: Tim, sorry but whoever Daley
is related to has no bearing on his testimony. He is a business
owner who may be affected by this and as such has the right to
protest it. |
|
"Lynch lashes out: But what of the facts, governor?"; April 18, 2010 (editorial)
|
|
I am a state rep, so I guess I am one of the bums. I
reluctantly voted for the LLC tax, which in fact made little
difference one way or the other. Small changes in tax rates do not
change things all that much. Increasing the interest &
dividends tax from 0% to 5% was an unpopular move and the way it
was enacted was problematic. It didn't actually "kill"
any jobs, because a 5% tax rise doesn't turn a profitable business
plan into an unprofitable one, any more than a 5% drop in revenue
would. Ditto for the increase in the rooms and meals tax: maybe
not a great idea, but it caused no measurable change in how many
rooms and meals consumers bought. IT didn't even cause a
measurable drop in campground revenues (although this effect would
have been hard to measure because it was applied to a very small
sector of the market.) |
|
Vince Milano from Epping owns a successful business, but I doubt any of these other people are running LLC's which were successful enough to incur the tax.
Timothy Horrigan, at least you have the courage to admit and
stand behind your positions...no matter how misguided they may be.
Your support of the LLC tax is nothing less than the unjustified
imposition of a biased, unconstitutional, retroactive INCOME tax
on the very segment of the business sector responsible for not
only the creation of most of the jobs in this troubled economy,
but for the very existence of an economy. Many of these LLCs
operate on such a thin profit margin that any increase in expenses
means that the LLC owner(s) may not draw any compensation that
period. Your contention that "Small changes in tax rates do
not change things all that much." appears to be held by one
who has never put his blood, toil, sweat and heart on the line to
grow a business from nothing. (Trust fund baby??) |
|
Rep. Horrigan of Durham (who never finds it necessary to give
his party affiliation, but you can guess it) says, "Small
changes in tax rates do not change things all that much." The
last time I heard this contempt, it was a politician in Atlas
Shrugged |
|
Timothy Horrigan you are exactly the problem. How can you say a
5% tax increase won't kill a business that's on the edge because
of this recession? It's this arrogant statement by a legislator
that is completely out of touch with everyday people and everyday
life. You are focused on your own issues like gay marriage not
issues that are important to everyday people. I'm sure gay
marriage had a lot of support amongst gays, like a no drunk
driving laws would have among alcoholics. Democrats are so out of
touch with the mainstream they push issues on the fringe without
addressing the tough issues. Lynch did lie that's the truth. |
|
Mr. Horrigan you are correct on one major point in your
posting- You are one of the BUMS. It is quite clear from your
posting that you think that it is quite OK for the State
Government to take more from business owners and producers. After
all what's a mere 5 % ? You could not be more wrong. Every dime
you take out of the private sector by tax is a money that cannot
be saved or spent by those that earned it , thus building our
economy. Why can't you just step back and realize that Government
is not the answer to every problem and more often than not IS the
problem. The more people like you in this government the worse off
we will be until we hit the bottom. And on the Gay Marriage issue
I stand against it and it is very UNPOPULAR with everyone I know.
And where is the equality? Why can't someone have 2 spouses? Marry
a relative/ After all we want them to be happy and it is done in
other places in the world. How depraved are we to get, Mr.
Horrigan? Call me what you will, I don't care anymore. But I have
become politically active as have my family and friends and it is
not your ilk we support, (I actually met Mr. Milano in July, because I am part of an ad-hoc caucus which is trying to help him— and other citizens— file petitions for redresses of grievances. He was a person of considerable intelligence, and I guess I will admit that he makes some valid points. I will continue to assume that the other people I am quoting are morons, however.) |
|
It's OK, folks: I can take the abuse. |
|
Mr. Horrigan, you stated, "It's OK, folks: I can take the
abuse." Of course you can; you're a politician (as opposed to
statesman) who has a thick skin. But along with that thick skin
comes a deaf ear, blind eye, and the delusion that you know better
than the public what is best for the public. You may even suffer
from the self-perception that what you are doing is altruistic in
nature, when in fact, it is arrogant, narcissistic and completely
subjective as defined by your politics. I hope that someday -
before it is too late for you and us - that you will recognize the
errors of your ways and correct them...or at least, sytand aside
and allow someone with a sense of the electorate's will to step in
and reverse the New Hampshire economy's downward spiral. Wake up,
Mr. Horrigan, and smell the coffee. |
|
Rep Horrigan in Durham, |
2011 Petitions before the House Redress Committee
House Petition #4 (filed by Vincent Milano)
House Petition #18 (filed by Jeffrey Frost, who was one of the many citizens who spoke out against the LLC Tax)
June 5 & June 12 commentaries by Judge Edwin Kelly & Rep. Paul Mirski
My 2010 testimony against a federal constitutional convention
My September 2009 letter about healthcare reform and the Senate
My November 2008 letter about Carol Shea-Porter & her yardsigns
My 2010 testimony in favor of repealing the Sunday closing laws
My 2009 testimony and letter to the editor in favor of mandatory seatbelts
My October 13, 2010 statement about my 2010 re-election campaign (in PDF format)
BrenMil LLC aka Brentwood Army/Navy (Vince Milano's store)
Kelly Ayotte's Attack Ads Attacking Her Opponent for Running Attack Ads
smugly telling a businessman, "You'll find a way."
are great novels, but using them as textbooks on economic or
political science is like using 
as a history textbook. The events in Rand's books DID NOT HAPPEN!
She MADE THEM UP! And, by the way, she was bisexual and not at all
monogamous.